Shotgun Kitten ([info]kitten_grrl) wrote,

IVF

Let's talk about IVF. In Vitro fertilization. You know, treatment to make people who cannot have children biologically able to produce not only a child, but a freak litter of children.

There's something very wrong with it, in my opinion. Especially for those 'it's in Gawd's hands' people.

Ladies and gents, if the number of children you have is based on what Gawd wants to give you, maybe you should leave the doctors out of it? Gawd isn't deciding to 'bless' you with offspring, the medical community is forcing your body into it. It's rather like saying it was Gawd's will that I aborted. No, modern medicine had nothing to do with it. That annoying IV? Gawd manifesting itself. The medicine to dilate my cervix? Gawd again. So, hey, Gawd can't be against abortion, Gawd facilitated mine!

But wait, hardcore Christians tend to believe abortion is wrong. Does that mean Satan was the IV? But why is it different when medical treatment creates six or more embryos in your uterus, compared to removing one from mine? Is Satan also in the treatment inducing the embryos to form? Are miscarriages also Gawd?

I don't think deities have any place in science. That's all us.

But moving on.

Doctors who perform IVF are no better than backyard breeders. They produce litters of an overpopulated species, where many are routinely killed, abused, neglected and abandoned on a daily basis. There are hundreds, nay thousands waiting to be taken into a home, and these people are wilfully creating more to take a spot that could have been filled by an already living, breathing, existing creature. Are they improving the species? No. If you need IVF, the odds are you shouldn't be breeding, because there is something wrong with you biologically. Inability to concieve should be taken as a sign that maybe you shouldn't be reproducing.

These people, both BYBs and IVF doctors, are getting paid to produce genetically flawed, unnecessary creatures. Now, a lot of people I know dislike BYBs immensely. They're irresponsible. But why is this scorn not extended to human BYBs? To people who are paid to produce a human litter? It's the same basic premise, so why not?

People want a baby\puppy, so why shouldn't these people produce them? Well, dogs and people are overpopulated. This means there are too many. This means there are dogs in shelters and children in foster care. I know a wonderful foster parent, but I've heard the horror stories as well. Why is it okay then for a woman to pop out septuplets? Why is she getting corporate sponsorship for a decision made in full knowledge that she could end up with so many? A child, or a freak litter, born using IVF is not a miracle. It's a perversion of medicine. It's rather sickening. What's wrong with adopting a child? What's wrong with adopting a dog? Why must you have a puppy\baby, instead of one a little older, and theoretically, easier to live with? Your dog isn't going to either wake you in the night to be let out to potty or pee on your floor, and a child isn't going to keep you up all night screaming to be fed or changed.

Even more than that, why is it so important to people to have a child that is biologically theirs, instead of someone else's? Do any of you remember, without looking it up or asking anyone, your grandparents' names, first, last, and maiden? Your great-grandparents? Your great-great grandparents? Seriously, leave a comment telling me how far back you remember these names. I'm curious. You're not leaving yourself behind when you have a kid. You're not becoming immortal. Eventually, you will still be forgotten. Your genes? Well, think on this: your kid will have half your genes. Their kid will probably have about a quarter. Thiers an eighth. Eventually, your genes will be bred out. And this is providing your kid or grandkid passes on any of your genes, as opposed to the genes of their second parent. Your genes could die out as soon as the second generation removed from you. That's not immortality either. Ascend past your genes.
Tags: political rant

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  • 14 comments

[info]willow_aileen

November 5 2005, 18:35:52 UTC 6 years ago

Very well put. :) What brought it on though?

As for the names...
Mom: adopted, closed birth records.
Dad: Dad's maternal grandparent's last name was Miller.

[info]kitten_grrl

November 5 2005, 20:14:03 UTC 6 years ago

What brought it on was a post, and some comments, in the community childfree about IVF, and about a woman who was adopted, and happy, until her adoptive parents started going through treatments, horribly expensive treatments, to have a child biologically hers. Because her adopted daughter suddenly wasn't as good as the potential biological child.

And with your mom, how far back do you know her adoptive family? I'm really curious. I know my family only through to my grandparents, all five.

[info]willow_aileen

November 5 2005, 21:29:34 UTC 6 years ago

I *think* my mom said that her biological mother's maiden name was Beard. But that's all we know. That, and she was Lutheran, because my mom was adopted from a Lutheran orphanage.

[info]kitten_grrl

November 6 2005, 04:39:39 UTC 6 years ago

:) Reread, sugar. I asked about her adoptive family, the people who actually raised her. Tired today? ;p

[info]willow_aileen

November 6 2005, 06:19:22 UTC 6 years ago

oooh! Well, There's Grandpa Hoover and Grandma Jo. Then Grandma Jo died, and there was Grandma Adeline. And that's all I know. But apperantly, Grandpa is related to Robert E Lee.

[info]evilcresyluna

November 5 2005, 22:31:47 UTC 6 years ago

On the "it's God's will" debate over medical procedures, I agree. A lot of it doesn't really make sense. Of course it is always said, if the operation is a success, it is a blessing of God - if it doesn't work, it was "God's Will" ; why would God say that one tumor removal is okay, but a second is just pushing it?

The easier to live with part is only in theory, however, both for rescue/shelter dogs or for foster children. Abuse, neglect and disabilities are ALWAYS difficult to raise. Can I honestly blame someone that doesn't want to adopt a child with Downs, or doesn't speak because of abuse? Or an 8-year-old dog that is other animal aggressive and not housebroken?
(of course the fact that most IVF is used for couples that are older and will probably end up with birth defects like Downs anyway never occurs) In america, anyway, they're moving away from foster to adoptions. Current evidence seems to point out kids are better adjusted if they live with their biological parent, even if they're a crappy parent, instead of changing families.
I'd argue price, but IVF is usually just as, if not more, expensive than even overseas adoption. Another issue is that, one doesn't need to pass background checks and such to go in for IVF. You can be ANYONE and be a parent.
This one is relatively minor, but what about medical history? Is your family predisposed to cancer, diabetes, epilepsy? Shelter dogs are neutered/spayed, and even if not, most responsible people wouldn't allow those dogs to breed. Those kind of restrictions cannot, and should not, be placed upon adopted children - but they frequently find themselves at fault for not having that information on hand. And, in fact, this is the only reason they now CAN access closed adoption records (which will probably lead to less pregnancies ending in adoption).


I can get through the great grandparents, but that is it, beyond that isn't too much info [like "hey, who was your grandparent? "uhm. Never you mind."]

[info]willow_aileen

November 5 2005, 23:53:18 UTC 6 years ago

"they now CAN access closed adoption records" Really? We can do this now?

[info]evilcresyluna

November 6 2005, 16:57:51 UTC 6 years ago

Whoop, I thought it was national, but apparently only in certain states [Kansas, New Hampshire, Oregon, Alabama, Alaska and somewhat in California]. Making me actually check my random comments! ;)

[info]willow_aileen

November 6 2005, 22:00:28 UTC 6 years ago

Damn..all well, maybe it'll get to Illinois soon.

[info]kitten_grrl

November 6 2005, 04:53:29 UTC 6 years ago

A bit of a warning- if it's disjointed, I blame the painkillers

About the easier to live with theory: I'm not talking about a teen, pre-teen, or even school aged child, neccesarily. What about toddlers? They're not babies, so the adoption rate is lower, but they're not yet screwed up by the foster care system. I couldn't blame someone for not wanting to saddle themselves with a medically impaired child, a psychologically impaired child, or an abuse survivor without having some serious dedication. My roomate's mother is actually a foster mother currently caring for two special needs kids. I respect that. I've seen firsthand how hard it is.

I wouldn't ask anyone to take on that eight year old dog, either. I'd simply hope SOMEONE could. An eight-month old dog, however, may not be housebroken, but is still young and flexible enough to learn something like that.

I don't even have a problem so much with adults (not teens... whole different topic there) who simply have children that they can and do take care of. It's just IVF that I see as being rather sick. Sperm donor? Whatever. It's not very invasive, you're not likely to end up with sextuplets.

Medical history *is* a bit of an issue. However, weird medical issues can pop up in families without any predisposition. Diabetes was unknown in my family until my grandmother developed it. My sister has some hormone issues that are unknown on either side. It's still a bit of a gamble.

Honestly, I cannot really see a problem with fewer pregnancies ending in adoption. I personally believe in abortion as a better option, but realize it isn't always possible for everyone.

[info]evilcresyluna

November 6 2005, 17:12:31 UTC 6 years ago

Re: A bit of a warning- if it's disjointed, I blame the painkillers

Even babies have abuse issues [fetal alcohol syndrome, neglect leading to bonding deficits] - although they're more likely to be able to "bounce back." With them moving away from foster to adoption, they'd have to really NEED to get out of that situation before they'll actually be taken and put into an adoptable situation [not just, say, taken until parent gets out of jail/rehab what have you].

Aye, I'm just arguing as to why someone would choose an incredibly expensive long-term not-great rate of success [as measured by reasonable amount of kids without defects] measure OVER foster to adoption.

[info]kitten_grrl

November 6 2005, 21:55:10 UTC 6 years ago

Re: A bit of a warning- if it's disjointed, I blame the painkillers

Very true about the abuse issues, but there are children who were never abused or neglected in the system too. Kids with no other family when the parents die. Not so many, true, but they exist.

Heh heh. I just enjoy debating things. I even love playing Devil's Advocate. It's fun to me.

Deleted comment

[info]kitten_grrl

November 6 2005, 04:56:45 UTC 6 years ago

That was exactly my point. If you cannot concieve a child naturally, or with the aid of a sperm donor, which is unlikely to cause a freakish litter of humans, then accept it, and move on. Adopt, foster, mentor, whatever, just don't use IVF.

I know some of the history of my great-grandparents, but I personally cannot remember their names. I know my mother's mother's mother was a German immigrant. If I really wanted to, I could look up my mother's father's side of the family. I've just never had the interest.
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